As Démarche, we express heartfelt condolences to Andrey Karlov’s family, his mother Maria, widow Marina, son Gennady, and sister Elena.
In his memory, we are re-publishing one of the last interviews that was held with Ambassador Karlov by our Executive Editor M. Ferhat Yüksel in 2016.
This month, we engaged in a comprehensive discussion with Russian Ambassador Andrey Karlov, shedding light on the swiftly evolving relations between Russia and Turkey. Hosted at his residence alongside his wife Marina Karlova, Ambassador Karlov conveyed vital messages concerning bilateral relations, the Crimea issue, the Ukrainian crisis, energy projects, tourism, and, of course, bilateral trade. Notably, Karlov emphasized Turkey’s strength as a partner amid embargoes and limitations imposed on Russia, stating, “In this period of pressure, we have seen and understood once again that Turkey is a very trustworthy partner.”
M. Ferhat Yüksel
Born in Moscow, Andrey Karlov’s father served as a career diplomat in the Russian Foreign Ministry. Graduating from Moscow State University’s Department of International Relations in 1976, Karlov commenced his diplomatic career at the Russian Foreign Ministry. Later, he graduated from the Diplomacy Academy. Turkey, where he was posted in August 2013, marks the fifth international posting for Ambassador Karlov, who had been posted to North Korea three times and South Korea once. The visa-free regime project, currently in effect, was prepared by the Russian Foreign Ministry Presidency Consulate Section, of which Karlov was the general director at the time.
After over 500 years of conflict, the two countries now live in peace and friendship, celebrating the 95th year of bilateral diplomatic relations this year. The past 95 years have seen the development of friendly and cooperative relations, crucial for the resilience of both nations. Particularly in the last 10-12 years, relations have flourished rapidly.
Turkey stands as one of Russia’s largest trade partners, and reciprocally, Russia is among Turkey’s largest trade partners. Currently, Turkey leads the list of foreign companies active in Russia’s construction sector. In tourism, 4.5 million Russian tourists visited Turkey last year alone. Human field cooperation is thriving, with a Russian diaspora now residing in Turkey. Estimates suggest between 150,000 and 250,000 Russian citizens permanently live in Turkey.
Collaboration extends to foreign policy, with readiness to engage with Turkish counterparts on various subjects, even when ideas may not completely align.
INDEPENDENT TURKISH FOREIGN POLICY…
Can you explain the effect of the pressures put on Russia in the international arena on the recent rapid convergence of Turkish-Russian relations?
Amid external pressures, we’ve once again witnessed Turkey’s reliability as a partner. It’s a country with a solid reputation for conducting independent foreign policy. Cooperation with a nation that upholds its distinct foreign policy is more straightforward compared to one with imposed foreign policy. The swift progress in Russian-Turkish relations results not only from international pressures on Russia but also from Turkey’s commitment to independent policies.
Can you elaborate on the level of trade relations between Turkey and Russia and the opportunities that have emerged as these relations developed?
Our total bilateral trade volume has now reached $31.5 billion, excluding the service sector (tourism and construction). When incorporating this $15 billion sector, the total volume reaches $46 billion. Last year witnessed a significant increase in food exports from Turkey to Russia. During the recent visit of Moscow’s mayor to Ankara, a trade cooperation agreement was signed between companies from both countries, primarily involving food exports from Turkey. Russian investments in Turkey have focused on various sectors, with the recent acquisition of Denizbank by Sberbank being one of the largest. To facilitate our $30 billion trade, we established instruments providing financial support. Additionally, we have made significant investments in the iron-steel and energy sectors.
UNLOCKING OPPORTUNITIES FOR TURKISH COMPANIES IN RUSSIA
How does the Russian market fare for Turkish companies, and what opportunities lie ahead?
We sought insights and recommendations on Russia’s potential for Turkish companies in an exclusive interview.
One key advantage is the vast market, boasting a population of 140 million. Turkish investors and companies, well-acquainted with Russia and its market, find a welcoming environment. Despite limitations in farming and fresh produce due to climate constraints in Russia, the proximity to Turkey, along with its diverse and year-round production, opens avenues for collaboration. The spotlight is also on Crimea, where an $8 billion bridge linking the region to the Russian continent is set to commence construction. Russian authorities expressed a strong invitation to Turkish investors, aiming to revitalize Crimea’s economy.
The trend shows a rising presence of Turkish investors in Russia, with Tatarstan leading in attracting Turkish investments. Notably, Turkish construction companies annually inaugurate factories in the region. The call extends beyond selling products; Turkish companies are encouraged to establish factories and engage in production. Tatarstan, in particular, offers fertile ground for such investments. Other regions, such as Chechnya and the Moscow-adjacent Kaluga region, actively seek Turkish investments, especially in sectors like medicine, agriculture, and forestry.
THE ROAD TO SOLUTION: MINSK AGREEMENT
How do you assess the policies of the new administration in Ukraine concerning both Russia and the Western countries?
The current situation in Ukraine is a significant tragedy for its people, with thousands, predominantly civilians, losing their lives during the ongoing clashes. The Russian policies pursued by the Ukrainian administration are currently not characterized by friendliness. Despite the shared historical and cultural ties between the Russian and Ukrainian people, the normalization of the situation in Ukraine largely depends on the policies adopted by the Ukrainian administration.
The path to a resolution in Ukraine is intricately tied to the Minsk Agreement, and there have been substantial proposals put forth by the Russian president in this regard. The perplexing aspect lies in the Ukrainian administration’s dual stance – on one hand, criticizing Russia for perceived aggression, while on the other, seeking additional financial aid. Russia is prepared for dialogue and cooperation, emphasizing the need for a bilateral approach.
Russia has extended significant support, offering a substantial discount on natural gas purchases by Ukraine, amounting to $100 per 1,000 cubic meters. This assistance is crucial, considering the economic challenges Ukraine is facing. The fact that a considerable number of people, around 800,000, have sought refuge in Russia from Ukraine further questions the narrative of Russian aggression. The Ukrainian crisis has seen various claims in the Western media, including allegations of Russian tanks and soldiers present, which the Ukrainian chief of staff contradicts. Instead, there are reports of American soldiers engaged in training Ukrainian military forces. This situation raises questions about the objectives for which the Ukrainian soldiers are being trained and whether it aligns with the principles outlined in the Minsk Agreement, emphasizing the withdrawal of foreign soldiers from Ukrainian soil.
‘U.S. CONCERNED BY DEVELOPING RUSSIA-EUROPE RELATIONS’
How do you assess the West’s interest in Ukraine?
A prominent Western politician once remarked that Russia is an empire with Ukraine but an ordinary state without Ukraine. The West feared that a Russian-Ukrainian alliance would strengthen both states. It is important to note that Russia has no intention of re-establishing the Soviet Union. On the contrary, we see this as a means of enhancing economic ties, flow, and contact in the region.
American politicians display hypocrisy concerning Ukraine. Recently, some high-level American politicians have advocated a strategy where Europe must act like the United States. The U.S. is uneasy about the development of relations between Russia and Europe, as close cooperation and friendship between Europe and Russia counteract the U.S.’s international policies.
‘WE WANT TO TELL TURKEY THE TRUTH’
How do you evaluate Turkey’s policy in the Ukrainian crisis?
As you are aware, our positions differ on this matter, and I cannot claim that it has had a positive effect on our relations. However, Russia respects Turkey’s ideas and position on the issue. We aim to explain to Turkey that we are correct in this matter and provide insight into the actual developments in both Ukraine and Crimea. To enable Turkey to see and understand the truth, we eagerly await the unofficial delegation they will send to Crimea. We urge them not to heed politicians who have been receiving funds from the U.S. for years. Instead, they should listen to us, and their observers will objectively assess the situation when they visit Crimea.
Can you discuss the Eurasian Union and its goals?
The objective of establishing the union is to enhance cooperation among member countries. A significant market is emerging, boasting a population of 250 million. Presently, member countries include Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, and Armenia, with Kyrgyzstan set to join in May. The Eurasian Union is an open organization, and other countries can join as well. Notably, there is no need to be a member to conduct business with the union; various formats of collaboration are available. Unlike Europe, which kept Turkey waiting at the door for 50 years, countries interested in working with the Eurasian Union can engage without prolonged delays.
TURKEY’S SENSITIVITY ON CRIMEA: ADDRESSING MISCONCEPTIONS
How do you evaluate Turkey’s sensitivity and policy regarding Crimean Tatars? What will Russia’s approach to Crimean Tatars be in the upcoming period?
We find it natural that Turkey is deeply interested in the lives of their kin. However, Turkey overlooks one crucial point: the Tatars living in Crimea are part of the Tatar population in Russia. After Crimea became part of Russia, Tatar became an official language, and there are around 330 mosques in Crimea. While Crimea is not without challenges, we are taking necessary steps, though more time is needed. We would like to address the closure of the Tatar television channel, which created a stir in Turkey. Currently, all individuals in Crimea are being registered according to Russian law. The channel’s administration was informed after their first registration application that documents were missing. Despite this, they failed to make necessary changes, hindering the process. We maintain that privileges cannot be granted to Russians, Tatars, or any other populations; the laws apply universally. Presently, a channel broadcasting in Tatar is being established in Crimea.
AN ANSWER TO NATO
Russia conducts numerous intelligence flights along Turkey’s Black Sea border, over the Baltic Sea, and even the Pacific. What message does Russia intend to convey with these flights, which are perceived as a return to the Cold War period?
We are conducting more flights in adherence to international norms, responding to the escalating number of flights by NATO in recent times. In 2013, the United States executed a total of 22 flights at the Russian borders using RC-135 intelligence planes. This number surged to 140 in 2014. The frequency of intelligence planes from other NATO countries near our borders is also on the rise.
In recent months, NATO countries sharing borders with Russia have established highly modern military systems. Weapons have been deployed, new types of planes and soldiers positioned near the borders, and a permanent presence maintained. Given this scenario, Russia has augmented the number of intelligence flights, noting our observations.
Can you elaborate on Russia’s perspective on the Syrian crisis?
Russia underscores the importance of peaceful resolution to the Syrian crisis and advocates for dialogue. The futility of attempting to resolve internal political issues through military means is evident in recent years, with Libya serving as a prime example. Regarding Syria, the Geneva Accords need to be actualized. Russia is actively working to facilitate a dialogue between the Syrian opposition and the government. Meetings were held in Moscow with representatives from both sides. Initially, various opposition groups convened to establish a common attitude and position on Syria’s future. On the concluding day of the meeting, they engaged with representatives from the Syrian government. Without a dialogue between the government and the opposition, achieving a significant outcome is challenging. Prior to this Moscow meeting, the Syrian government released 600 convicts from prison at our request.
Can you discuss the significance of Turkey in Russia’s energy sales and distribution policies, along with the nuclear power plant projects that Russian companies will construct in Turkey?
The Turkish Stream project holds great importance, and upon completion, it will facilitate the pumping of 65 billion cubic meters of natural gas through Turkey. This project offers numerous advantages for Turkey, ensuring a more secure transfer of natural gas from Russia. Currently, this transfer occurs through Ukraine, and given Ukraine’s unreliability in gas transfers, rerouting a substantial portion of the gas through Turkey to Europe becomes imperative. This strategic move will elevate Turkey’s significance and generate increased income from natural gas transit.
Another noteworthy project is the $20 billion Akkuyu Nuclear Power Plant, which Russia will build and operate. This initiative will establish nuclear energy as a new industry in Turkey. We extend an invitation to Turkish contractors and companies to participate in the project’s construction. Furthermore, we are actively training individuals to become experts in nuclear energy. Each year, between 80 and 90 Turkish students will commence their education in nuclear physics at leading Russian universities. This year alone, we plan to admit 80 more students, although applications have surged to 6,500.
How will the depreciation of the ruble against the dollar impact tourism between Turkey and Russia?
Undoubtedly, the devaluation of the Russian ruble against the US dollar will have repercussions on tourism. The Turkish government is actively taking significant measures to address this issue. Recently, there has been a push to employ national currencies in trade with Turkey. Implementing this initiative would be both timely and logical. For instance, Russia has successfully conducted a substantial portion of its trade with its primary partner,
China has used national currencies for many years.
TURKS’ RESPECT FOR HISTORY IMPRESSED ME
What aspects of Turkish culture impressed and surprised you the most?
I was deeply impressed by Turkey’s reverence and sensitive approach to its history. Additionally, the striking similarity between Turks and Russians caught my attention. People from both countries exhibit warmth, hospitality, and openness, making it a unique experience. While serving as a diplomat, I have traveled to numerous countries, yet I have never encountered a society as open and warm as the Turkish people. Interacting with Turkish individuals, both professionally and personally, is consistently swift and effortless.
Marina Karlova: I was particularly impressed by Turkish culture in general. Moreover, the ancient history and historical artifacts in Turkey left a lasting impression on me. Exploring the ancient city of Ephesus was not only impressive but also surprising and exhilarating.
Among the places you have visited in Turkey so far, which one left the most significant impression?
Andrey Karlov: Cappadocia and Kars.
Marina Karlova: Cappadocia.
How would you describe Andrey Karlov as a father and husband?
Andrey Karlov: I can leave if you want? (laughs)
Marina Karlova: We have been married for nearly 40 years, and I am happy every single day living with Andrey. He is the perfect husband and father, earning great respect and love in our family. Even at 26 years old, our son still seeks his father’s opinion and advice on important matters. In short, my husband is a smart, beautiful, decent, and good person. We seize every opportunity to spend time together, making the most of each moment.
THREE GENERATIONS OF DIPLOMATS
Both your father and son are diplomats. Could you share your thoughts on this?
At present, my son and I find ourselves at different stages of our diplomatic careers. My son is in the initial phase as an attaché, while I have reached the final step as an ambassador. Engaging in conversations about diplomatic matters with my son is a particularly interesting aspect for me.
